Order Only: Private message to Alice, Remus, Poppy and Hydra

[alt_rachel]

Haruman Patil turned up this morning to help in the hospital wing. We sat down for a chat a little while ago, and I told him our proposal: Miss Patil will turn herself in and debrief with us complete, giving us a full account of her own actions and any intelligence we might find useful. We will not use cruciatus on her, nor any other form of torture, now or in the future. She will serve five years in prison; before her release she will take an Unbreakable Vow to refrain from all use of the Cardinals Unforgiveables, as well as any spell that will cause death if cast properly. She will then serve an additional five years where she is supervised by someone who regularly inspects her wand for Dark spells; during those five years, she will seek out opportunities for service to muggles. At the end of this, she will be deemed rehabilitated and allowed to fully move on with her life (though I don't think we should ever lift the Vow).

Haruman's counterproposal was this. The debriefing, the Vow, the supervision, those are all fine with him. But he wants her imprisoned just until the end of the war, and he wants her somewhere other than Saltash and to be allowed to use her journal, at least as her jailers have time to supervise her. In exchange for these considerations, he's offering us Sean Finnigan. Not Seamus. Sean.

Thoughts?

Comments

[alt_rachel]

We briefly discussed what 'end of the war' meant and I think we agreed on, 'until we have arrested, killed, or otherwise neutralised all of Voldemort's remaining Death Eaters and transitioned to peaceful governance, or five years, whichever comes first.'

[alt_hydra]

Not really related, but I wanted you to know that I just saw Draco a bit ago. He wants to question some of the student volunteers while I read them. He explained that all of these people might be helping us now because they're grateful to be alive and aren't sure where else they can go, but that both of those things could wear off. And then he said that everyone should feel safe and I think he meant Hermione, specifically, but it seemed like a valid point, just the same.

[alt_rachel]

Oh, by all means.

Can Draco partner with you on that? Tell him to try to keep them a little bit on edge -- not terrified to the point of wetting themselves, just nervous. I'm sure Draco can manage that. He'll have a better sense than me about what questions to ask them, anyway.

[alt_hydra]

I don't think Draco will have a problem keeping anyone on edge. Neither will I, I suppose.

But yes, we'll do it.

[alt_alice]

Agreed.

They've been through the ringer, to be sure, but there were valid reasons you had for not bringing some of them into the fold earlier, and those still apply.

[alt_lupin]

Well, that's an unexpected development.

Hydra, how reprehensible were Padma's actions? I suppose they can't be any worse than Lucius's.

[alt_hydra]

If it helps, she was thinking about ways to not kill anyone (but make it look like she had) when the students were being held hostage.

Possibly that just further complicates things, though.

[alt_rachel]

I'd say that's mitigating, at least.

What do you think she'd have done, in the end, if it had come down to that? You don't fake the Avada Kedavra with Bellatrix watching your work.

[alt_hydra]

I honestly can't say. Of course none of the options she was contemplating would have worked, but then, what would have? She either would have followed orders, or not, but the most I can tell you is that she didn't want to follow them.

[alt_rachel]

What was Seamus Finnigan thinking through all this?

Desai? Glozeman?

[alt_hydra]

Desai and Glozeman were ready to follow orders. Desai had some regrets about losing promising students, but mostly she was trying to figure out what order to kill people in. Glozeman was hoping for the chance to get creative with his kills.

Seamus was thinking about how if Ron was ordered to cruciate Sally Anne or Pansy, he probably wouldn't do it, and might even attack Desai instead. And he (Seamus) was trying to decide if it would be better to petrify Ron or kill him, if that happened.

And then of course later "Ron" (Ginny) had to cruciate Pansy after all, and Seamus was surprised when he was able to do it. And then Seamus wondered if he would be the one ordered to kill Sally Anne or Pansy, when it came time for it, to spare Ron the act.

Thoughts of his mother kept intruding, too. He was trying not to think about her but I think he was hoping that Ron would have to go what he went through. That Ron would be forced to kill someone he loves.

[alt_rachel]

Goodness, he sounds lovely. Almost as pleasant as Glozeman.

[alt_hydra]

A part of me feels sorry for him. Because it's like he's convinced himself there's no other choice, but at the same time I don't get the impression that he's necessarily enjoying himself, not like Glozeman.

But then just last week I was wondering if I ought to kill him. Because of what he did to Neville. I thought - should you kill someone like that? To keep them from doing something horrible again?

If he's responsible for anyone else's death I'll feel like I should have.

[alt_rachel]

That way lies madness. You can't hold yourself responsible for not killing someone freelance just because they later kill someone else. Even for someone like Finnigan, they could just as easily take action that saves someone you care about.

I'm not saying not to kill him if you get the chance. I've got a list of the surviving Death Eaters and they need to be killed or captured or running before this is over.

[alt_hydra]

I suppose it's hard to imagine him taking action to save someone.

But, he did stop Ron from doing something mad and rash when Daphne was murdered.

So you're right.

[alt_rachel]

Oh really? I don't think I heard about this.

[alt_alice]

And there's her actions with Dean Thomas, and her performance at Erewash and Ollerton to weigh as well.

[alt_poppy]

Quite true, though I'm not sure that it might not be a false measure to compare them, given the differences in their ages and experiences.

What occurs to me is that to pledge that we will deem Miss Patil 'rehabilitated' after a pre-determined length of time may prove quite unwise. What if she does not become more tolerant or more peace-abiding or more apt to be a productive member of society during the time of her imprisonment? What if the reverse is true? I believe we must retain the right to keep her until she is in fact rehabilitated or deemed suitable for release into society.

At her age, confinement and deprivation could cause her to become much more of a threat than she is presently. (Whereas with Lucius Malfoy, one can scarcely imagine anything we might do that could either increase or decrease his willingness to assimilate into a society of our crafting.)

[alt_rachel]

Well, she'll be under an Unbreakable Vow not to cast the Unforgiveables or any curse intended to kill.

From talking with Haruman I rather get the impression that even if we didn't lock her up, she'd put herself under house arrest for her own safety. Though he could be lying. Hard to know without having Hydra talk to Padma, which won't happen until Padma's brought in.

[alt_poppy]

That's rather apples and oranges. We're not talking about her safety, we're discussing her punishment. And rehabilitation. What she and her brother might consent to do today of their own accord may be radically different than what they would actually do (if it's left at the level of house arrest) six months or three years from now.

But I think you are in fact planning to lock her up, and in that scenario my concern is that we should negotiate with the less rosy outcome in mind as well as the hoped-for one. What if she hardens during her time in prison and is not, then, a good candidate for release into the population? Ought we not retain some control over what we must do with her at that point? One changes a great deal between the ages of 17 and 23 even without having been first a war criminal and then a prisoner. I'm suggesting that what she is today may bear little resemblance to what she will be in five-years' time, and predicting how that change will manifest is impossible, even with the services of a powerful legilimens to help us.

[alt_rachel]

Well, we can legilimise her in six months, say, but what would be the benchmarks? I don't actually care much whether she likes muggles, so long as she follows the laws of our new society.

I'm not sure Haruman will agree to an indefinite term for her. And I think we want Sean Finnigan.

[alt_poppy]

Is negotiating down the punishment for the former the only means we have of obtaining the latter?

That's yours to determine, of course, with Alice and Remus. I'm merely suggesting that we not place too much expectation that five years' incarceration will have a predictable outcome. We may accept that that is true and still be glad to make this bargain.

[alt_rachel]

I see. Maybe it would be better not to mention rehabilitation, and simply say that incarceration and supervision and the rest would be sufficient.

I just wanted to make it clear that her punishment would be over at some point -- she'd be allowed to rejoin wizarding society and do whatever she likes with her life, provided it doesn't involve casting Cardinals.

[alt_alice]

I admit -- if we were to win the war in a month's time (highly optimistic, but the point holds), I would find it difficult to release her.

Determining to our satisfaction that she would no longer be an active threat may be a proviso of any early release -- and an immediate re-imprisonment should she violate the guidelines of her supervision. We can include language to imply that any such determination could be corroborated by uninvolved parties, although Merlin knows how we'd do that short of shipping in someone from the Americas who has no stake in it...

[alt_rachel]

We could say a year, minimum. Or two years. Or 'evaluate for release when the war ends,' but I think in that case Haruman will want to know what sort of standard we'll be using, exactly.

I don't think we should count on bringing in some neutral arbiter.

[alt_alice]

If we were to release her early, the burden would be placed on her and her family to establish that she was no longer a threat.

An interview under Verisatum with a family member present?

More importantly -- what would be your primary security concerns -- both in terms of holding her in a place that isn't a null zone, and in terms of what may happen were she to be released prematurely?

[alt_rachel]

I think the main thing that would happen, if she escaped and tried to rejoin the other side, is that Bellatrix would kill her.

She's no particular threat to us. She's a clever student but a mediocre fighter. She's capable enough in Dark Arts but not a prodigy.

The reason to imprison her isn't because we're concerned she's an actual threat; it's because we need to demonstrate that we take her crimes seriously.

[alt_rachel]

I should say, I do think she was a threat to our people before the 16th. Much like Seamus Finnigan, I doubt she'd have hesitated to turn in Ron, Pansy, or Sally-Anne, if she'd had anything on them. Though it's worth remembering she lost her nerve and sent a warning to her sister.

In any case, we disarmed that threat when we liberated the school.

[alt_rachel]

How badly do we need Sean Finnigan? I haven't been paying close attention to the wards project -- it's not my field.

Haruman and Inderpal thought maybe we'd want him because he has contacts in Ireland. Dogstar doesn't know much about the wards, they've never had the expertise to research them like we have. (I told Poppy but not the rest of you: Haruman and Inderpal are in Dogstar. They know now that I was, as well.)

[alt_alice]

Quite.

With him, taking down the Ireland wards are difficult, but not impossible. Without him, we'd have to capture Seamus alive, or invent something to work around it, which are lengthy propositions indeed.

The fact he's alive is a bloody miracle.

[alt_rachel]

I'd much rather come to an accord with Haruman, even if that means letting Padma Patil off too easily, than to send Justin Finch-Fletchley and Ron Weasley to try to bring back Seamus Finnigan without killing him.

[alt_alice]

Agreed.

See what you can hammer out.

[alt_rachel]

Right. They're fine with a minimum sentence followed by consideration for parole based on an interview with a legilimens or under veritaserum, seeking sincere regret and a commitment to harming no one in the future. We'll need to figure out where to keep her -- I think a prison under Fidelius is an excellent idea, but maybe Bedford? Would they be willing?

They'll bring in Padma, and Sean Finnigan, later today.

[alt_alice]

I'll send Wayne over to see if he can negotiate a space.

[alt_rachel]

Also, Jason Montague's semi-agreed to spy for us.

I've tried asking for the new set of Ipswich codes. (You may have seen Crouch use these. They're used to tell Aurors where to go. The Ministry is -- well, it was NL1 and Buckingham NL8. Hogwarts was Ips 11, Azkaban Ips7, the whole of Ireland is Ips32, I could tell you the whole list but I am certain they've all been changed, given the circumstances.) He wasn't willing to give them up. Which didn't surprise me, really -- we'd have to use that intel carefully to avoid exposing him as a mole, and he has no real reason to trust us.

We'll see. Any intel he passes along should be treated very carefully.

[alt_hydra]

So he knows that he's an occlumens, then? He must if he sort of agreed to take that kind of risk.

[alt_rachel]

Maybe he knew, or maybe he worked out that he must be or I wouldn't waste my time recruiting him.

He said he didn't know he was a legilimens till he joined MLE, just thought he was good at reading people. But he did notice he couldn't read me anymore, not like he could back when we were in school.

[alt_hydra]

Oh, yes, of course you would have gone to school together.

Did he mention Daphne at all? I forget if I said, but she was his cousin.

[alt_rachel]

He didn't mention her. Neither did I. Though that's part of why I thought it might be worth trying to recruit him.

[alt_hydra]

Well I don't know if they were close, exactly, but they did see each other now and then. I had the impression that she found him frustrating, somehow.

Anyway, I hope he can give us something, even if it's small.

[alt_rachel]

Oh, and we didn't just go to school together. He's also an ex. Fortunately I've stayed on good terms with most of my exes.

Not sure how awkward that's going to be, yet.

[alt_hydra]

Oh really? But -

He dates Sarah Yaxley sometimes. She's really bizarre and eccentric and dark. Not like you at all.

But then I don't have an inside impression of you at all, I suppose.

[alt_rachel]

Jason dates a lot of people. Or has, in the past. Sarah's just one of the more public.

I'm not sure if he'd say she's like me, or not. Not that I'm bizarre or eccentric, or a photographer. Probably he was drawn to different things in the two of us.

But yes, since he knew me before I learned the transformation, he did get at least a glimpse of a part of me you'll never see.

[alt_hydra]

It's funny how in just a few years I've got used to being able to see people inside and out. Even if they've been taught to occlude, it's impossible to do it all the time, especially when you're around a legilimens you consider a friend.

It makes me intensely intrigued by the people I can't read.

But I'll try not to ask you too many personal questions.

[alt_rachel]

That's, what, me, Sirius, Terry, Ron? Except you were able to read Ron for years.

You can ask me whatever you'd like, Hydra, if I don't want to answer your questions I'll just tell you I'm not going to answer.

[alt_hydra]

Oh yes, Ron was very easy to read for many years.

I don't have questions now, but thank you just the same.