Order Only: Private message to Alice, Remus, Sirius, and the Weasleys

[alt_rachel]

So, there's this risk that Aurors were warned about, when I was in MLE training, with interrogation. It's possible to break through an Obliviation with cruciatus, but if you're going to do that, you need to be extremely careful not to hint to your victim what you expect them to remember. Because if you do, they'll manufacture the memory for you. They'll start by just saying they remember whatever you want, but if you're checking with legilimency -- which is standard in their interrogations, to make sure people aren't just lying -- they need to actually remember. So they will.

If your goal is information, you want to avoid doing this. But that seems to be what Antonin has been doing to Ginny, deliberately, probably with a mixture of cruciatus and leading questions, to turn her against the Order. She now 'remembers' overhearing the rest of the family plotting to kill Percy and being Obliviated by Bill, and she 'remembers' an incident from childhood where she overheard the Order and Bill punished her (and then Obliviated that, as well). Or so she said in her replies to their private messages. (I guess the good news is she's being allowed access to her journal.)

We can probably expect her to tell these stories, and others, possibly worse, as she explains in the most public possible way why people should turn on the Order and trust the Protectorate.

Comments

[alt_sirius]

We need our reporters to tell Percy's story as soon as possible, in the right way, so that it's in the public's minds before Ginny's version.

I wonder if there are ways to catch her out in 'memories' that we're concretely able to contradict?

[alt_rachel]

Percy died at Snowdonia. Can we locate those staff members we released, and see if any of them saw anything?

[alt_alice]

I can put Frank on that easily enough.

[alt_bill]

Padma Patil was there. Would Haruman allow us to talk to her about it?

[alt_alice]

...I'm wondering just how hard we ought to work on counteracting her specific memories, or just simply be blunt, state that she's being brainwashed, and that no-one can trust a word she says?

[alt_rachel]

I think probably the latter. Some people won't believe us, just as some people are convinced we're burning down houses. Some will. I'm not sure how much else we can do.

[alt_alice]

I've been thinking. Perhaps one of the things we might do is to publicly describe exactly how it's being done. Perhaps she'll be able to question the process a little.

The problem is not coming off as utterly paranoid, or risk being accused of the same thing. 'How can we believe anything anyone tells us,' all that.

Private message to Alice

[alt_rachel]

Everyone knows MLE uses torture, and we can certainly point out to people that nothing a prisoner says should be taken at face value.

Regarding publicly describing the process, to get Ginny to question things: would your goal be to make her useless to them, so that they would kill her?

Re: Private message to Alice

[alt_alice]

Yes. Point.

Duly rescinded.

Simply stating that prisoners' statements can in no reasonable way be taken as truth is a good tack to take.

We'll save the rest for after.

[alt_molly]

I'm willing to talk to any reporter writing the story, if it would help.

I wish I could prove that Antonin Dolohov took Percy's tooth, but I can't. Even if we found it, I'm sure that plenty of people would be willing to believe we planted it in Dolohov's quarters.

Damn it all.

[alt_rachel]

The tooth would prove exactly nothing even if we had it.

[alt_molly]

I know.

It just that it doesn't quite fit within the story that for some reason I arranged Percy's death.

Private message to Rachel and Charlie

[alt_bill]

All my sins are rebounding on my head, I think. I knew I'd made a mistake trying to obliviate Ron the moment I pulled out my stupid wand. I had to work at it for almost three years before it seemed he'd finally forgive me.

But this...

So it's my stupidity that Dolohov is using for the foundation of his lies.

Now I wonder if I'll ever be able to forgive myself.

Re: Private message to Rachel and Charlie

[alt_rachel]

Bill, Dolohov didn't know about that incident. He almost certainly told Ginny she'd been Obliviated and he was trying to break the memory charm. She fastened on you because of that incident with Ron, but she could have done it anyway because you're the oldest, and a safer person to wholeheartedly hate than your parents.

Re: Private message to Rachel and Charlie

[alt_bill]

Maybe you're right. But it sure made it easy for him, didn't it?

I wrote back to her, just very briefly. I told her I wasn't going to try to argue her out of her belief. That Dad taught her about logical fallacies, and so she'll remember that it's impossible to prove that something didn't happen. I baited her into telling me that she hates me, and when she did, I told her to go ahead and hate me, to hate me as hard as she possibly can.

That's what they want. That's why they're keeping her alive.

Re: Private message to Rachel and Charlie

[alt_bill]

I think I'm going to go see if Hermione has some hideously gunky cauldrons that need scrubbing out.

Re: Private message to Rachel and Charlie

[alt_rachel]

If your transgressions meant that she 'remembered' more quickly that you were the one who Obliviated her, then you should be glad. Because they cruciated her until she remembered.

Re: Private message to Rachel and Charlie

[alt_bill]

Thank you. By all means, please keep continuing to whack me over the head with the fact that it's not about me anytime I seem to be forgetting it.

Re: Private message to Rachel and Charlie

[alt_charlie]

I think I'm going to try writing to her and seeing if they've made her remember anything about me. They probably have, but on the off chance they haven't, maybe I'll be able to sneak something through the cracks.

Just keep telling yourself, this is actually a good sign. It means both that she's alive, and that they have a very good reason to keep her that way.